questions about "Salaoja"

[rzilahi]

Hey Guys! Sorry for writing in english, I was given the advice to ask for opinions on this platfomr.

I hope i will be tolerated here. My Finnish language is poor, though I am actively learning so I might be able to switch soon. Until that, I came here for help.

I have purchased an omakotitalo, and as being a mathematician and a software engineer, unfortunately I know very few about stuff related to houses, and in general. And as I know that everyone speaks amazing english in this country, I took the liberty of joining to this community.

So, the house came with a fresh kuntotarkastus, which was nice, it stated a lot of things, described the situation of those, etc. You know how that is. There is, and there was no surprises so far (been living here 6 months only) comparing the reality, and what was written in the kuntotarkastus, but I find one thing odd, which is the Salaoja.

So, as being said, I don't really have any insight, experience, or knowledge about most of these things, but I have some common sense, so when the fitness check says there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Salaoja, but then now , as the spring comes, and the snow melts, I notice this, somewhat I have issues to believe that this is normal. [image: one , two , three]

In theory, those pipes exists, where the Salaoja could be connected. (Once we had a Sewer issue, and the guy who came out to check it said that, because I asked. [see image])

So I think I have two individual questions here. One is that am I right when I say, despite of the kuntotarkastus not mentioning this, this is far from ideal? I mean all the water are pretty much ends up under the house itself?

So if that's the case, what do you think the right path or approach I should take? I mean i guess i'd need to direct those pipes under the house, and then connect them into that "pit"?

Or if you think there some important information I forgot to share regarding the manner. just ask. Any hint that points me to the right direction is highly appreciated.

Thanks for your help in advance, and sorry for writing in english.

Richi

 

[Pirkka]

I believe you'll get answers regardless of the language.

I'd split this two things: what exactly you have bought (the contract) and was this kuntotarkastus part of the contact and what exactly it says about salaoja (drain)? Because many of these cases related to houses and drains lead to court and former Owner may have responsibilities regarding even up to 5 years. However the possible legal process is often rather dirty, time consuming and can be costly as well. Rules about drains has also changed during years so when the house was built would be nice information as well.

And what comes to the pictures, I didn't see much drains so that is yes to your first question. The approach would be based what exactly you have bought unless you don't care and want to pay all possible expenses by yourself. As a lot of money can be involved, it might be good to get guidance outside this forum as well. In case here is an issue, the seller should be formally notified.

 

[happoman]

Hi, welcome to the forum.

First of all those pipes you are talking about are not Salaoja. Salaoja is a pipe with holes in it under ground next to the foundation. I dont know what Salaoja is in english, apparently it is called French Drain? French drain - Wikipedia
Salaoja and drainage water pipes are two different systems. Salaoja collects water from surrounding ground trough those holes (Blue pipes in picture) and leads the water to drainage well. Drainage pipes (Red pipes in picture) collect water from the ceiling of your house and lead them to same well.

If that well really is a drainage well, then you should do as you descriped. Build that Red pipesystem that is shown in picture.

Easier solution but not that efficient is to lead that water further away from house using waterways.

 

[rzilahi]

Hey @happoman, @Pirkka. Thanks for your replies!

So as I opened the kuntutarkastus again, and did some proper research on the topic, it does states the following. So this sentences, does raises the concerns, indeed. (Obviously i have no idea the related laws, but for some reason I had the impression that the concerns phrased in the kuntotarkastus needs to be fixed by the owner before they are selling)

Anyway, I am a man of problem-solving, so this is the next one. As the 3D picture with the pipe shows, I need to build the red pipes. Do you have any idea of the following question just raised in me:

• what type fo the pipes do you recommend? after a quick googling, i came across with this.
• does this requires some professional with a licence? Or I can just call over a bunch of friends, order the pipes, and we are allowed to lay these down around the house too? (I know where purkuputki is that these needs to be connected)
• from a scale from 1-10 not having these drainage, how serious of an issue?

Again, I am grateful for you helping me with all these information

 

[taikamuki]

(Obviously i have no idea the related laws, but for some reason I had the impression that the concerns phrased in the kuntotarkastus needs to be fixed by the owner before they are selling)

No, kuntotarkastus is just for information and if there is some big problem you might have opportunity to cancel the deal. Or you can make an agreement with the seller that they fix something before you buy. But as you have bought the house you have accepted those concerns.

 

[rzilahi]

No, kuntotarkastus is just for information and if there is some big problem you might have opportunity to cancel the deal. Or you can make an agreement with the seller that they fix something before you buy. But as you have bought the house you have accepted those concerns.

yep, and that is totally fine i will get around this problem, and then one is out from the todo list thank you for your reply!

 

[taikamuki]

You wrote that you had sewer issues and know where the purkuputki is. Do you mean that sewage for example you flush the toilet goes? Salaoja and rainwater from the roofs usually cant go the same place the sewage goes.

As for the laws I dont know any that prohibits you doing the pipes by yourself. But you should ask some professional to tell how you to lay those pipes, how deep to dig etc.

 

[rzilahi]

You wrote that you had sewer issues and know where the purkuputki is. Do you mean that sewage for example you flush the toilet goes? Salaoja and rainwater from the roofs usually cant go the same place the sewage goes.

As for the laws I dont know any that prohibits you doing the pipes by yourself. But you should ask some professional to tell how you to lay those pipes, how deep to dig etc.

yes, those are not the same, i am aware of that! What I am talking about is not where the waste water going. I have popped it open the other day, and it's completely dry, and now we know the reason. (nothing is connected there). It's getting dark outside, but i am gonna take a photo tomorrow

Thank you!

 

[rzilahi]

sooo, after all these being said;

could you recommend me someone, that I could contact, and ask for help? I am located in Vantaa, so I assume Espoo Helsinki axis would be okay. I would ask for some offer, and agree on a time, price, and we would achieve this together. Seems like it's a too big of a task for a novice like me. My private messages are open, so let's keep the personal informations private.

Thank you all!

 

[Iså]

When your house has been built? I mean that if you are going to hire contractor to build drainage pipes (red ones) and your french drain pipes (blue ones) are over 20 years old, you should think about changing the blue pipes for new ones in same contract when they build the red ones. In same contract, they can add Perusmuurilevy Peto 1x20m 20m² to outside of the footing (if you dont have them) which helps to keep water away.
Contractor will charge 10-15k euros for installing blue and red pipes and adding perusmuurilevy. So its a bit expensive

 

[rzilahi]

When your house has been built? I mean that if you are going to hire contractor to build drainage pipes (red ones) and your french drain pipes (blue ones) are over 20 years old, you should think about changing the blue pipes for new ones in same contract when they build the red ones. In same contract, they can add Perusmuurilevy Peto 1x20m 20m² to outside of the footing (if you dont have them) which helps to keep water away.
Contractor will charge 10-15k euros for installing blue and red pipes and adding perusmuurilevy. So its a bit expensive

the house was built in 1987, so its definitely over 20yrs. And yeah, figured, if I am gonna hire a contractor, the price will reach the sky, as labour is expensive in general. But what needs to be done, needs to be done, either way. So far I am unsure, if I am gonna start installing those red pipes ourselves, after researching the topic a bit. (depth, etc).

 

[Pirkka]

the house was built in 1987, so its definitely over 20yrs. And yeah, figured, if I am gonna hire a contractor, the price will reach the sky, as labour is expensive in general. But what needs to be done, needs to be done, either way. So far I am unsure, if I am gonna start installing those red pipes ourselves, after researching the topic a bit. (depth, etc).

It maybe a little more digging (especially with shovel) than you think first. And like said above, if you are missing those both, it would be wise to do both at once.

 

[rzilahi]

It maybe a little more digging (especially with shovel) than you think first. And like said above, if you are missing those both, it would be wise to do both at once.

do have any company in mind that i could contact, describe the situation, and they would give an offer?

thank you!

 

[Iså]

If you cant afford real contractor, i would just add more these concrete drainage wells and lead the water further away from footing, 2m would be enough i think

 

[Bakufu80]

Here is small video about different phases, maybe you can get some info from it (at least that you will need excavator ):

Couple years ago I made basically same thing as in video for my 1989 build house (190m2). I propose to find out some local contractor who owns small excavator - typically he/she have a lot of experience how to do "salaojaremontti" and hopefully some references from past. About costs: I cannot remember exact costs, but something like this: excavator work 1500eur, different gravels 1500-2000eur, pipes/wells/insulations 3000eur. But same time I did some other things at yard also, like foundation for terrace, but maybe you can get some info about costs - of course a lot of things affect costs like surface around your house (flat/slope), type of soil around house, ... And I did a lot of things by myself, installing pipes etc. and excavator guy mainly moved bucket.

 

[rzilahi]

Here is small video about different phases, maybe you can get some info from it (at least that you will need excavator ):

Couple years ago I made basically same thing as in video for my 1989 build house (190m2). I propose to find out some local contractor who owns small excavator - typically he/she have a lot of experience how to do "salaojaremontti" and hopefully some references from past. About costs: I cannot remember exact costs, but something like this: excavator work 1500eur, different gravels 1500-2000eur, pipes/wells/insulations 3000eur. But same time I did some other things at yard also, like foundation for terrace, but maybe you can get some info about costs - of course a lot of things affect costs like surface around your house (flat/slope), type of soil around house, ... And I did a lot of things by myself, installing pipes etc. and excavator guy mainly moved bucket.

yeah this is a bit more srs than what I had in mind. excavator will be needed, but I think thats the easier part. Ive even seen some ppl in the neighbourhood with those. The rest is mateial price then, if we assume that I can do the pipe placiing myself, with some help of someone who has some experience.

 

[penttip]

Does the kuntotarkastus mention anything about the actual salaojat? Are your salaojat connected to that big drain? If you can find some additional checkup sumps from your yard, it's possible to do some "toubleshooting" for salaojat yourself. They most likely don't work the same way as they did 30 years ago, but if you have access to the corner sumps, you can guide water from one sump towards another one to see whether it passes to the next sump. If it does seem that the pipes are still open between the sumps, I would probably not start digging around the yard yet and just focus on guidind the rain water away from the building. If your pipes are open and sumps are dry, it does not necessarily mean that there is anythign wrong with the salaojat. If the location of the house and ground material is good, it's very much possible that salaojat never have any water. They will sort of just act as an insurance.

If you have no idea whether you have salaojat or not or no way to check their condition, then it might make sense to fix them both at once.

 

[rzilahi]

Does the kuntotarkastus mention anything about the actual salaojat? Are your salaojat connected to that big drain? If you can find some additional checkup sumps from your yard, it's possible to do some "toubleshooting" for salaojat yourself. They most likely don't work the same way as they did 30 years ago, but if you have access to the corner sumps, you can guide water from one sump towards another one to see whether it passes to the next sump. If it does seem that the pipes are still open between the sumps, I would probably not start digging around the yard yet and just focus on guidind the rain water away from the building. If your pipes are open and sumps are dry, it does not necessarily mean that there is anythign wrong with the salaojat. If the location of the house and ground material is good, it's very much possible that salaojat never have any water. They will sort of just act as an insurance.

If you have no idea whether you have salaojat or not or no way to check their condition, then it might make sense to fix them both at once.

If I'd need to guess, I don't have those pipes around the house, that supposed to take the water. In the kuntotarkastus, this is the only paragraph, that mentions anything about salaojat.

 

[Pirkka]

If I'd need to guess, I don't have those pipes around the house, that supposed to take the water. In the kuntotarkastus, this is the only paragraph, that mentions anything about salaojat.

Basically what it says is that rain water is lead near house and this is apparently not adequate as there is moisture present in ground and structures. It does not mention salaojat at all... So probably all that piping is missing. The red pipes take care of water coming from the roof, but salaojat takes care water coming "from the ground". As ground has way more surface area, depending of the shape of the ground, this can lead much more water near building(s).

 

[rzilahi]

Basically what it says is that rain water is lead near house and this is apparently not adequate as there is moisture present in ground and structures. It does not mention salaojat at all... So probably all that piping is missing. The red pipes take care of water coming from the roof, but salaojat takes care water coming "from the ground". As ground has way more surface area, depending of the shape of the ground, this can lead much more water near building(s).

yep. ive just requested a checkup from a professional company. they will come check it, and give some opinions, offer, some milestona how to get started with fixing the problem. good bye money!

 

[Zigh]

If you cant afford real contractor, i would just add more these concrete drainage wells and lead the water further away from footing, 2m would be enough i think

I think the recommendation is to direct rain water at least 5 meters away from the building.

 

[rzilahi]

thank you everyone! there's a contractor coming next friday, gonna take a look, and then they will create a proper documentation and an offer. i will get this done, thats for sure, but if it's possible to postpone the entire work to the near future, and just to some sudden damage reduce with those concrete wells, thats what i am gonna do first, until getting the financial background for the actual work. if not, then i'll just do it asap.

Thank you everyone, you rock!

 

[Pirkka]

I'd suggest to contact at least three different contractors for quote. That will also show you rather quickly, not just price level, but also that all of them will most probably highlight different aspects. And once you understand more, then you may want still highlight things with them or ask even couple more quotations. Prices may vary quite a bit...

We had someone selling kitchen and the offer was roughly 6300 € for whole job. Wife was ready to sign immediately but I wanted to take a quotation from company I had used earlier (not that this would have affected price at all). The competing offer was 3600 €. It wasn't exactly 100 % same, but the later was more flexible as some cabinets had to be non-standard size and so. In any case, for sure the saving were roughly 2000 € if they would have made exactly same, but from first company you wouldn't be even get all needed parts in the end.

 

[rzilahi]

I'd suggest to contact at least three different contractors for quote. That will also show you rather quickly, not just price level, but also that all of them will most probably highlight different aspects. And once you understand more, then you may want still highlight things with them or ask even couple more quotations. Prices may vary quite a bit...

We had someone selling kitchen and the offer was roughly 6300 € for whole job. Wife was ready to sign immediately but I wanted to take a quotation from company I had used earlier (not that this would have affected price at all). The competing offer was 3600 €. It wasn't exactly 100 % same, but the later was more flexible as some cabinets had to be non-standard size and so. In any case, for sure the saving were roughly 2000 € if they would have made exactly same, but from first company you wouldn't be even get all needed parts in the end.

good point, i am usually asking for multiple offers, I did the same with the solar panels, though those prices didnt differ that much, but this is a whole different topic! Thank you!

 

[Lamanka]

thank you everyone! there's a contractor coming next friday, gonna take a look, and then they will create a proper documentation and an offer.

I wouldn't use same company for inspection and contractor. You (could) get biased report from possible contractor. I would get the main sewer checked and washed at the same time as underground drain checked. It is usually around 1000€ and you get 40% tax refund (kotitalousvähennys).

There is good options for sewer maintenance at Vantaa:
- Lassila & Tikanoja
- Hurrikaanit ympäristöhuolto
- HRV
- Eerola yhtiöt
- Suomen Viemärihuolto
- Delete

 

[rzilahi]

hey everyone who has been following this situation. So after ive watched a few vids how are these things made, i've wisely decided to ask professionals. Asked inquiries from 3 different companies, basically the google threw in front of me.

so, the first company has been here already, and game me an offer. without me saying my own opinion about this specific offer. You can find it here here

Every opinion is welcome, and appreciated! Thank you!

 

[Lamanka]

Wov, 30k for new underground drain That sounds bit too much

Edit, sounds much to spend if there is no actual, measured problem. Kuntotarkastus states that only roof water needs to be lead away from the house.

 

[Örbelböm]

Wov, 30k for new underground drain That sounds bit too much

Edit, sounds much to spend if there is no actual, measured problem. Kuntotarkastus states that only roof water needs to be lead away from the house.

Yeah, and in the offer it says ”Rakennuksessa normaaliperusteinen sokkeli” which means that it doesn’t have ”valesokkeli” which was common back in the 80’s and causing lots of problems when getting wet.

Is it Älvsbytalo by any change or similar? Can you get under the house to the crouching level? If you can then there is absolutely no reason to worry about salaojat and all I would do is leading the roof water further away from the house.